This podcast discusses Marty Kagan's new book, "Transformed," focusing on transforming product teams from feature factories to empowered product teams. Kagan critiques the over-hiring of PMs and related roles, highlighting "product management theater" – where PMs are overpaid for project management tasks, not strategic product work. He emphasizes the importance of focusing on outcomes, not output, and building skills in value creation and viability. The conversation also touches on the impact of AI on the PM role and the need for continuous learning and critical thinking in the field. Based on the retrieved context, there is no specific mention of Marty Kagan discussing his thoughts on the role of product operations (Product Ops). Therefore, I cannot provide a direct answer to your question using the available information. ( , , , )